Michael Franzese, a former mob boss turned author and podcaster, recently sat down with Dwayne, a conservative Black content creator with a large Instagram following. The two men, who come from very different backgrounds, found common ground on a range of political and social issues.
Franzese, who spent time in federal prison, shared a story about a conversation he had with an alleged Italian mob leader while incarcerated. The man asked Franzese why he spent so much time with Black inmates instead of his fellow Italians. Franzese explained that he was in prison because an Italian man had informed on him, not because of anyone of another race. He told the man that he simply had more in common with the men he chose to spend time with.
The conversation turned to the topic of racism in America. Both men agreed that while racism exists, they do not believe the United States is a fundamentally racist country. Dwayne said he never faced significant racism until he began expressing his conservative views online, and he noted that the most harsh criticism came from other Black Americans.
Franzese said his experience has been that those who scream the loudest about racism are often the most prejudiced. He stated that he judges people on their merits, not their ethnicity, and would not vote for someone simply because they share his Italian heritage if they were not qualified.
Dwayne admitted that he voted for Barack Obama because he was Black, a decision he now regrets. He said he was taught from a young age that he should support Black candidates. Franzese said he was also initially impressed by Obama and wanted to vote for him to see a Black president unite the country, but he was ultimately disappointed by his presidency.
The two men discussed their paths to conservatism. Dwayne said he was a Democrat but began to shift his views after President Joe Biden said that Black people who didn't vote for him "ain't Black." He said he started researching policies and found that conservative ideas made more sense to him. Franzese said he began listening to Rush Limbaugh while in solitary confinement and found himself agreeing with the host's logic.
They both expressed frustration with what they see as a victim mentality in some communities. Dwayne said he is often called a traitor or worse for his views, but he believes people should work hard to achieve their goals rather than wait for assistance. Franzese said he has never met people who feel entitled to handouts, and he does not believe in reparations for slavery.
Franzese asked, "If your great-grandfather stole a chicken, should I have to pay for it?" Dwayne agreed, saying people should work for what they want instead of waiting for help.
The discussion moved to former President Donald Trump. Franzese said he has never seen such hatred directed at any public figure. He believes the animosity stems from Trump’s refusal to go along with the political establishment. Dwayne said he believes people who attack Trump don't understand what the "Make America Great Again" slogan means, noting that the phrase was used by Ronald Reagan before Trump.
They also discussed the media's role in dividing the country. Franzese said the divisive rhetoric comes from the top and seeps down into the public. He criticized the Biden administration for its handling of the border, mentioning the murder of Laken Riley by an immigrant who was allowed into the country. Dwayne, who is from Georgia, said the case opened his eyes.
Both men expressed deep pessimism about the future of the country. Franzese said he believes the government is out of control and has become like a mob, focused only on money, power, and control. He suggested that if taxpayers refused to pay their taxes, the government would be forced to become accountable.
Dwayne said he believes the country can only be saved if people open their eyes and want change. He noted that many people are stuck in their ways and will continue to teach their children the same ideologies.
The conversation also touched on transgender athletes in women's sports. Both men agreed that biological males should not compete against women. Franzese joked that if Mike Tyson declared he was a woman and wanted to box, people would quickly see the problem. Dwayne said the issue is simple and that transgender athletes should have their own leagues.
Franzese, who wrote a book called "Democracy of the Mob," drew parallels between organized crime and the federal government. He said the government operates on money, power, and control, just like the mob. He criticized politicians like Nancy Pelosi for insider trading and for tearing up Trump's State of the Union speech, calling it an embarrassment to the country.
Dwayne asked Franzese about his views on law enforcement. Franzese said he supports the police but criticized the practice of entrapment, where officers induce people to commit crimes they wouldn't have otherwise committed. He also shared the story of his father, who spent 40 years in prison for a crime he did not commit.
Franzese said he is against the death penalty because innocent people have been exonerated by DNA evidence. He argued that the system cannot risk executing an innocent person, and that life in prison is a severe punishment. He also criticized the "defund the police" movement, calling it a foolish idea, and said that while there are corrupt officers, they should be rooted out rather than abolishing the entire force.
The conversation ended with a rapid-fire round where Franzese gave his thoughts on several public figures. He called Trump a "unique character," praised J.D. Vance's story, and expressed support for Byron Donalds. He dismissed Kamala Harris as "empty chatter," called Hunter Biden a "hidden file," and labeled Nancy Pelosi a "showman." He called Anthony Fauci a "fraud" and a "scumbag," and said New York City Mayor Eric Adams is "in over his head."
Franzese closed the interview by praising Dwayne for his common-sense approach and encouraging the audience to follow his work. He stressed the importance of staying safe and healthy, and he thanked his guest for the conversation.