The conversation between former FBI agent Joe Pistone, known as Donnie Brasco, and former mob associate Michael Franzese offers a rare look at the inner workings of organized crime. The two men recently discussed the dangers of undercover work, the rules of the mob, and the complicated bonds formed on opposite sides of the law.
Pistone recalled his first major confrontation with the mob, which happened early in his infiltration of the Colombo family. He had been introduced to the crew by Jilly Greca, but a dispute with an associate named Frankie put him in a dangerous position. Frankie had just been released from prison and was suspicious of the newcomer.
The tension came to a head when Frankie demanded a sit-down. Pistone was called into the back room of a social club, which was fronted by a clothing store. For the first time, he saw a gun placed on a desk. Frankie made it clear that if Pistone could not prove his credentials as a jewel thief, he would not leave the room alive.
The argument lasted nearly five hours. Frankie demanded the names of criminals in Miami that Pistone claimed to have worked with. Pistone refused, pointing out that Frankie had just been released from prison and could have become an informant. The standoff only ended when Jilly Greca decided it was over.
Pistone knew he could not simply walk away after the confrontation. He decided to take an aggressive approach instead. As they stood to leave, he punched another associate named Patty. It was a bold move, but one he felt was necessary to maintain his cover.
Franzese asked what would have happened if Pistone had struck Frankie instead. Pistone explained that hitting a made man would have meant certain death. He had been taught this rule early on by his mob mentor, Lefty. Lefty had told him never to raise a hand to a made man, as there was no coming back from that act.
The confrontation with Jilly’s crew marked the end of Pistone’s time with that group. He told Jilly he could not come around anymore, knowing the situation would not end well. Jilly accepted this, and Pistone soon gravitated toward the Bonanno family, where he worked with Lefty and Sonny Black.
Franzese asked Pistone how he managed the constant fear of being discovered. Pistone said he was naturally not prone to stress. He recalled a conversation with Sonny Black, who told him that in this life, you wake up every day wondering if it is the day you go to prison or the day you get killed.
Pistone admitted he did think about the possibility of being killed, though he ruled out prison. He also noted the jealousy that existed within the crews. He explained that his original contact, Mirr, had turned against him after leaving prison. Mirr believed Pistone was making a lot of money with Lefty and Sonny and wanted him back. When Mirr failed to claim him, Lefty stepped in and claimed Pistone for his own crew.
Franzese related to the jealousy Pistone described. Even as a made man, Franzese faced resentment from older members because of his success in the gas business. He recalled a night when he walked into a room and feared he might not walk out, an experience that made him uneasy about the life.
Pistone said he left the mob not out of anger, but because he wanted a better life for his family. He acknowledged that the life was supposedly built on honor and respect, but his experience showed otherwise. He said loyalty was tied to friendship, not to the organization. He saw men plant seeds of discord with the boss against others in the crew, and he saw little true honor.
Franzese agreed, saying his father was a man of loyalty and respect, even to a fault. His father had sworn an oath and would die by it. Franzese noted that there are few men like that in the world.
The two men also discussed a shared acquaintance, an undercover agent named Victor Guerrero. Guerrero had worked on a case involving Franzese and Don King. He posed as a Colombian drug dealer looking to invest in boxing. Franzese said he grew close to Guerrero, even playing tennis with him. Guerrero complained of back pain, which was caused by a hidden recording device.
Franzese said Guerrero never allowed his brother, who was struggling with drugs, to get narcotics from him. When the case ended, Guerrero testified at Franzese’s trial. He told the truth, saying Franzese never engaged in criminal activity with him. Franzese credited that testimony with helping him get acquitted.
Pistone said he never had trouble separating his job from his feelings. He did not want to see Sonny Black killed, but he was not bothered when Mirr was killed. He felt no remorse about sending people to prison, as they knew the consequences of their choices.
Franzese agreed, saying that as long as law enforcement did their job without fabricating evidence, there was an understanding between the two sides. His father always taught him to respect law enforcement who did their work properly.